Hey, this is Malika from Evanston Live TV, and I have with me a returning guest, psychotherapist Joyce Marter. Welcome back, Joyce.
Thank you, Malika. I’m so honored to be with you tonight. I really appreciate it, as always.
Yes, yes. I was so excited. We had a lot of feedback just from posting about tonight’s conversation. People were like, “Oh, this is a great idea.” Apparently, quite a few people need some information on depression during this time period. Would you call it seasonal blues or depression? What would you call it?
Well, I think right now this is such a timely topic because we are living through a global trauma with the pandemic. It’s not just the simple holiday blues; it’s holiday blues during COVID. We’ve already been isolated from loved ones, sheltering in place, and our holidays are not the same this year. As the weather turns more gray and cold here in Evanston, people are homebound more, which can be depressing. Yes, seasonal affective disorder, or seasonal blues, is just feeling low because of the changes in the weather. Light therapy, getting outside, or ordering one of those lights from Amazon to put on your desk can help by getting some vitamin D. Taking vitamin D supplements is helpful too. I think it’s important, even if it’s cold and yucky outside, to get out, bundle up, and walk around the block. It’s good for both our mental and physical health.
Some people experience holiday blues or even depression at this time of year. Depression is more of a clinical diagnosis. People might experience difficulty sleeping, changes in weight or appetite, irritability, sadness, or apathy—not finding joy. Many feel pressure to be joyful this time of year, but it’s a tough time, especially in 2020, isn’t it?
Yes, yes, it is. We are definitely in some uncertain times—unemployment, people who’ve worked hard all their lives finding themselves in food bank lines because they didn’t see this coming. They didn’t expect to be laid off.
Absolutely. The unemployment and financial stress of the pandemic have been extraordinarily stressful for people, especially during the holidays. That can affect your sense of safety, your value and worth in the world, and your overall health and well-being. It’s a real trauma to not have food to put on the table or to worry about paying the mortgage. Some people are facing the fear of short sales or eviction, and that’s terrifying.
So, what do you say to people who are experiencing depression for the first time because of COVID, compared to those who deal with seasonal blues or chronic depression? How do you approach that?
It is different for each person. I’m such a believer that we all deal with mental health issues as part of the human condition at different points in our lives. There’s no shame, no blame, no stigma. It’s a normal response to our nature and nurture. We all have different stressors handed to us in life. I think we’re all dealt a different hand of hardships and blessings. Some of us have intergenerational trauma or family traumas that we’re born into. We might be born with more or fewer resources. Some are born into families dealing with addiction, alcoholism, or other issues. We each have our own histories that shape us. One of the things I love about being a therapist is that I believe in the resilience of the human spirit. People who have gone through tough challenges and learned to move through them often tap into deeper parts of themselves, their communities, and the support of others. They carry wisdom carved into their being.
I always look for the silver lining. Yes, these are extremely challenging times, but I’m grateful to you for opening conversations about mental health. We need to talk honestly because I think we’re all suffering in some way. For someone with a history of depression, what they’re going through now might tap into past traumas. For those who haven’t experienced it before, they might not know how to handle it. I was walking with a friend a couple of months ago, and she said, “I’m so glad I’m an alcoholic.” I asked, “What do you mean?” She said, “I’ve been in AA for years, so I have tools to deal with this stuff. But for normal people—people who aren’t in recovery—it’s different.” People who are in recovery are normal too, but she was grateful for the skills she learned.
Wow, she found a silver lining. That’s amazing. Joyce, we’ve been hearing a lot about relationships breaking up during quarantine. Couples are really getting to know each other again and realizing, “I don’t like you.” So, they’re breaking up. People are also experiencing loneliness because they can’t go out and socialize like before. Can you explain that?
Well, I think it has to do with whether we’re extroverts or introverts, or even ambiverts—a term that’s a mix of both. Introverts do well on their own; they enjoy solitude. But extroverts get their energy from connecting with others, so this time is tough for them, especially if they’re living alone or single. Dating during COVID has changed too, with safety concerns. A lot of people are experiencing loneliness, so I encourage them to access support—participating in online events, joining support groups, or even teletherapy. Some insurance companies have waived the copay, and there are resources for those without insurance as well.
Yes, and relationships are definitely under stress. With people working and living from home all the time, there’s so much togetherness, and it can be overwhelming. There’s also fear about health and safety, financial stress, and unfortunately, an increase in domestic violence and child abuse. It’s really serious. People need to take a step back, look at the bigger picture, and realize we’re living through extraordinarily stressful times. That’s affecting our mental health and relationships, so couples are having conflicts.
So, what should you say to a friend going through relationship issues? Do you tell them to stick it out? What if someone is in a violent situation?
I think it’s important to encourage people to take good care of themselves—sleep, nutrition, exercise, support, and work-life balance. People need to take care of themselves to have something to give in their relationship. We also have to zoom out and realize that these challenges won’t last forever. Emotional intelligence is key—managing our emotional process with personal integrity and empathy for others. It’s also important to practice detachment—not absorbing someone else’s negative energy. Being able to let things roll off, like a duck letting water roll off its back, is helpful.
What about dealing with negative people, especially when they’re close to you, like co-workers or family members? That can be really draining.
Dealing with toxic people, especially if you can’t avoid them, requires self-care practices like mindfulness, meditation, and setting healthy boundaries. There are books and resources, like those from Dr. Cloud and Dr. Townsend, that can help you learn to set limits. It’s important to be assertive and respectful of yourself while communicating with others. Healthy boundaries are necessary for both mental and physical safety.
And what about the vaccine? Some people are hesitant about taking it. Why do you think that is?
There’s understandable fear and mistrust around vaccines, especially in communities that have experienced trauma, like the Black community. The Tuskegee experiment is a painful example. People have reasons to be wary, and we need to approach that with compassion and understanding.
